memevector: (Default)
[personal profile] memevector
Cheaper-than-usual XP Home.

What do you think, o wise friends-list people? Is there likely to be a catch?

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-16 04:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] otterylexa.livejournal.com
Apart from the fact it's Home, not Pro? Looks legit to me, but you could check the Microsoft website for confirmation that sale of OEM versions with any hardware is OK, if you're worried about that aspect of it.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-17 07:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] memevector.livejournal.com
Thanks! No, I believe them about that. I was thinking more of the kind of "catch" where e.g. it would come without some not-strictly-essential but highly-useful bit that everyone else got :-)

if you know what I mean :-)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-16 05:37 pm (UTC)
lovingboth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lovingboth
Yeah, it's XP Home.

Do you have some program that a) you must have and b) doesn't run on Linux, even with Wine?

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-17 07:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] memevector.livejournal.com
I got a bit excited reading this and going to look up Wine! which I hadn't heard of before. I'd be over the moon if I could move away from relying on Microsoft.

But unfortunately I think the answer to both halves of your question is probably yes, for now.

It must be some years now since I actually bought anything which was Win-only, but I've got a lot of archive stuff from before then, especially in WordPerfect and LocoScript, as well as a few crucial things in current use.

For WPWin, the most significant that springs to mind is what amounts to a program I wrote - in WPWin's mail-merge language - for assembling a page full of badge artwork. (The content varies every time, depending on which designs need replenishing in that colour.) Recreating that in another language would be a tedious and possibly difficult task.

Wine's database reports that WordPerfect will start up but then falls over a lot. LocoScript isn't in there.

Also there are several devices I link the PC to. The main three are my Dragon digital recorder which gets backed up using Via Voice, my digital camera which is a Minolta and has what I think is proprietary software, and of course the Psion (3mx) - though maybe the Psion has a Linux link program by now, do you know?

Can't find those mentioned in the Wine database except that Dragon NatSpeak itself is in as partly working (but that's not the same thing as Via Voice, even though they came together).

Also I have Mindmapper, Smartdraw and JotPlus, and archive stuff in those formats. Smartdraw is in the Wine database as not working; the other two aren't mentioned.

It looks like I'd also need to learn a new email prog (to replace Turnpike) and a new graphics prog (to replace Picture Publisher), although the same archive considerations don't apply there.

I suspect there would be other implications too, of the kind that "only dawn on one later" :-)

If I were starting from nothing now, then I would most likely choose multi-platform applications for everything (if possible - the hardware-link software might or might not be available). In general I'm heading in that direction. In the last few years I've become very aware of at least not locking myself any more into Windows than I already am. (E.g. doing less and less new writing in WPWin, and more in HTML or XML formats using EditPad Pro.)

But I'm not really close enough yet to "jump". The more I think about it, the more I realise it would still be a doesn't-bear-thinking-about-ly huge investment of time (and almost certainly some money too) to get a setup on Linux equivalent to what I have on Windows now. That's on three fronts - (a) useful content I've created in the past, (b) software and (c) learning-curves-already-climbed. Wine would fill the gap brilliantly if all the above programs worked on it, but it looks as though that'll be a while yet.

So, enticing idea though it is, I think it'll have to wait till the Wine has matured :-)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-17 10:34 pm (UTC)
lovingboth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lovingboth
Your other 'better' alternative would be to use VMWare - it emulates a PC on your real one. Stick an old copy of Win98SE on it, and don't let it see the internet.

The one sticking point may be Via Voice, but the one here runs ok on Win98SE.

If it's a USB camera, I'd be surprised if there wasn't better Linux software to read it. If it isn't, you probably need a new camera :)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-19 12:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] memevector.livejournal.com
Big thanks for this. Yes, evidently still quite a bit more potential in this area than I'd realised, and I think it will be possible after all for me to go Linux as the main OS. Which is brilliant! ::enthusiasm & delight::

Spent a large proportion of yesterday looking into further Win-on-Linux solutions, VMWare being one of them. VMWare Server does look like a definite possibility. However, ideally I don't want two separate virtual machines, which then have to be made to virtually talk to each other if I want the same data to be accessible from both. So at present it looks like Qemu might be slightly more suitable. Any experience of that? But I'm 99% sure that VMWare would be adequate if that doesn't work out.

Research is continuing :-)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-19 03:00 pm (UTC)
lovingboth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lovingboth
Typically, you have your 'real' PC running Linux runs your main programs including the VM software which does the virtual PC for Windows to run on for the rest. You have the option of, for example, having a FAT32 partition that both Linux and Windows can read and write to.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-20 11:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] memevector.livejournal.com
your 'real' PC running Linux runs your main programs including the VM software which does the virtual PC for Windows to run on for the rest

Is that with VMWare Player or VMWare Server?

I saw a diagram of Server which I now can't seem to find, which definitely looked like this:
[ os on vm ] [ os on vm ] 
[        vmware         ]
[   os on real machine  ]


not like this, which is how I understand Player to work:
[ os on vm ] 
[  vmware  ] [other stuff ]
[   os on real machine    ]


But maybe that first diagram was just one possible way to run Server, and really you can have other apps on the host OS too, as with Player?

Player can't create the virtual machines, only run them. Server can create them so that's why I was looking at that, and the model shown in the first diagram is what my earlier comments were based on.

I've also seen some allusion somewhere to having to "network" the virtual machines on Server if they were to talk to each other - whatever they meant by that in a virtual world. At any rate, VMWAre are at pains to stress that the virtual machines on Server are completely separate. Hence my caution about the ability to share data.

Of course it's entirely possible that I'm just misunderstanding stuff still. Steep learning curve going on here :-)

having a FAT32 partition that both Linux and Windows can read and write to.

Well, I plan to have one whole actual physical hard drive for data and one for software. (for ease of backing up data and replacing that one later with a bigger one if I need to.) So ideally both OSs would be able to see and access that entire hd.

Thanks for all this info!

Would be good to see you at Easter, yes. Will take that to email.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-21 10:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] memevector.livejournal.com
update: actually don't worry about answering my previous comment - think I've got my head around it now. There is freeware to create the vm so I can use Player (which I'm guessing now is probably what you had in mind in the first place).

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-22 12:54 pm (UTC)
lovingboth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lovingboth
Yep - Player runs the 'virtual machine(s)' you've created with Server or, from memory, something else.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-19 01:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] memevector.livejournal.com
Oh yes, and a couple of questions:

Stick an old copy of Win98SE on it

Win98 is what I've already got. Would you reckon it's worth 20 quid (on eBay that is) to buy SE at this point? And is there any significant likelihood that something which would run on 98 wouldn't run on 98SE?

and don't let it see the internet.

Because of security vulnerabilities or...?

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-19 02:38 pm (UTC)
lovingboth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lovingboth
None that I can remember. SE was Microsoft's way of extracting money off people for Win98 bug fixes, with a couple of new minor features thrown in to make people feel less exploited. I've got at least one disk, somewhere.

Yep, it stopped doing even critical fixes some time ago and letting the internet see such a PC is saying 'hack me now'. (Support is another reason not to pay for XP Home, actually, as it falls through to the second level of support in less than two years.)

We're in Nottingham in Easter if you want a chat (or indeed put L and I up - the kids will be with the grandparents in West Bridgeford).

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-17 08:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sermoa.livejournal.com
I reckon they're just selling it off cheap to get rid of it before everybody wants Vista. XP Home isn't very good, i don't think ... there's a lot missing.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-17 07:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] memevector.livejournal.com
Anything in particular that you think I'd miss? I did look at a comparison table and concluded I could manage without the Pro stuff, but you probably know more about it than I do.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-18 06:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sermoa.livejournal.com
Actually, now you mention it, maybe not. There i go being prejudiced and spouting off abuse about Microsoft (just cos it's fun) and not really thinking about what i'm saying.

I think the only thing you'd miss if you use it is the networking. If you have your logins controlled by a domain controller so that you can log on to different computers around the house. You can't do that in XP Home.

For a list of other differences, i found an article on winsupersite which always has extremely reliable information:
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_home_pro.asp

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-25 04:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] memevector.livejournal.com
Thanks for that. But in fact the whole question may have been superseded now - see latest post, re Linux excitement :-)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-17 01:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 36.livejournal.com
I've just ordered the same product from eBuyer for the same price. It's an OEM copy to you should be buying at the same time as the components for a PC you're building. However, I'd felt ethically sound knowing it was for a built PC, if you've already bought the components previously.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-03-17 07:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] memevector.livejournal.com
Yes, this would be for the new PC I'm planning to build. (And I'd probably be getting one or two hardware things from them as well anyway.)

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