Lament

[memevector]

This is the fourth night in a row that my sleep has been interrupted by noise from the neighbours to a health-impairing degree. I mean like no sleep for hours on end. Not always because the noise was very loud (this time) but partly because I am getting a bit insane about it now and the slightest bang or shout gives me a hit of adrenalin that takes ages to wear off.



I've lived here nine years and always had student neighbours, usually both sides. And until about three years ago we very rarely had much trouble with noise from them. One year there was someone with a piano (the oldfashioned acoustic kind), and that was pretty inescapable when ze was practising, but ze was a reasonable person and we came to an arrangement whereby if it was really doing my head in I could ring and ask em to stop. And ze never played it at night.

But lately it seems to have been getting worse and worse. This year, one side has been these five second-years from Trent University. They're generally pretty quiet during the day, but around 10.30 or 11 at night they often start socialising and then they don't stop till 3am or later. Their idea of fun includes running around the house screaming and giggling. I think it's some kind of tickling game or chasing game. It's really hard to sleep when you've already nearly dozed off a few times and been woken by a nearby scream that makes you jump. The walls are pretty thin so anything above a low murmur is clearly audible. They also have friends coming round any time between 11pm and 4am, banging on the front door and shouting in the street.

I gave up on trying to negotiate with them after a couple of months. They seem to be in such a different world that my words make no sense to them. They don't understand how such a "low level" of noise as theirs could disturb us, and anyway, I quote their own justification, "at the end of the day we are students and students do make noise".

Of course it's the worst season for nighttime noise right now because exams are over for most people and there's nothing left to tie them to daylight hours at all. As the computer was booting up just now I looked out of the window and one of the neighbours was being dropped off by zeir {whatever the gender-neutral term would be for girlfriend/boyfriend}. As the car drove away someone beeped the car horn, in an otherwise perfectly quiet street. I suppose it's their little loving goodbye. At 4.15 a.m.! and they've done that more times than I can count!

One of the things I find hardest about the whole situation is I like to be on good terms with people and I really believe in communication, and that method hasn't worked this time. It's not pleasant living next door to people who think you're unreasonable and resent you for getting them into trouble.

I've also noticed myself beginning to have thoughts like "I hate them" "They're horrible people". Not all the time, because I have a lot of compassion for the limitations of thought and emotion that lead to wars and arguments, and basically I love people and I default back to that, but some of the time. Usually in the middle of the night when they're keeping me awake. I'm sure that's quite a natural thought to have under the circumstances! but it is really unusual for me and definitely a sign of stress and non-well-being. And I find it upsetting in itself to see myself thinking like that.

Lots of people have suggested that I take revenge and/or make a point by putting on music really loud at 7am, and there have been occasions when I could have done (though most mornings that would also wake perfectly innocent people), but it just doesn't seem like that's the right thing to do. Not only because it doesn't meet my standards of behaviour, but I don't even think it would necessarily work - just give them more justification for "well if they (i.e. us) are doing that themselves then how can they complain about us?"

But then I think: am I being too nice and should I have sworn at them more intimidatingly and told them what selfish people they are, or sobbed on their doorstep, or called the police, or... or... or... There's not even any guarantee that how I've been playing it was the best way forward.

We began going through the Environmental Health noise pollution process a few months ago - first time I've ever resorted to that. We're only now getting to the stage where the Env. H. people begin to measure their noise, so I expect by the time the big stick comes out they'll have moved out anyway. (Unless they're living there again next year - I don't know yet.) If we'd been quicker turning round the "noise observation forms" then we could have got to that stage earlier and maybe it would've had more practical effect. But it's been a learning experience to go through the process anyway. I'd definitely try it again if I had to.

The most depressing thing is it's already looking very likely that next year is gonna be much the same. I met for the first time today one of the people who's going to be living on the other side next year. (One of zeir parents has just bought the house.) Ze's just going into the second year at Trent. Almost the first thing ze said was "we're students - we'll try not to make too much noise. hahaha"

Yeah, ha fucking ha.

I thought maybe ze was alluding to the recent history (of which there is more, some of it applying to the house ze's moving into), but no, ze hadn't heard about that yet. I briefly mentioned the trouble we were having with the other side - up till 4am etc. - and ze said still amused "Sounds like typical students".

But surely it's not typical? I mean, for the first six years of living here it was max. one or two late parties a year per neighbour-household, and the rest of the time a perfectly reasonable level of noise. And even the first couple of groups of recurringly noisy people were always really apologetic if they'd disturbed us, and willing to negotiate, and offered us their phone number so we could ring if it was a problem, and that kind of thing.

I can see how both the new person and this year's lot would want to think it was typical, though. To justify themselves.

Lately I have been having these thoughts like: is it this generation? "Thatcher's children"? I'm glad I know 36 and kimble and barakta to prove to myself that some people escaped. But as an explanation of what I've experienced this year it has a terribly depressingly plausible sound. Their attitude is so "well, too bad if you have a problem". They don't seem to have the faintest clue of how to construct a win/win solution. Then again it could just be that Trent University is taking some very unimaginative people these days :-)

I dunno, though, maybe it is just random. I used to live with some people of my own generation who insisted on having "Prisoner Cell Block H" on loud every night. I can say from experience that it's not very easy to sleep through that either - rather a lot of screaming :-)

I hope it is random, because then maybe we're due for some quiet people again, rather than having to resign myself to "This is the way it's gonna be from now on". Although the new person is there for three years now 'cause ze's on a four year course apparently.

The worst thing about it is that if it is gonna be like this from now on, and every year is going to start with the Env. Health and my neighbours disliking me, then I think ultimately I'm gonna have to move away. Which would be a tragedy because in every other respect than neighbours, I really really like living here. (Actually, we're on perfectly friendly terms with the next-door-neighbour-but-one.)

I like the people I share with - it's my favourite household since I left home, really interesting people. I like being able to walk into town from here, or home if it's after the last bus. I like the house itself - it's an era that I like the style of, built late 19th century, and I can see a lot of sky from the top room window. I like what we've done with it - most of the inside has been painted white, and I've done some excellent storage solutions with my great DIY skills . I like it that it's such a mixed race area. I grew up in a mixed race family, and mixed race environments feel right to me and all-white areas are a bit... I can't quite explain it but they feel sort of narrow.

(In fact - sidetrack here - I did one of the "unconscious bias" tests at http://www.tolerance.org and it said I am unconsciously prejudiced against white people. Which at first glance is slightly odd because I am white, and actually I don't think I am necessarily prejudiced against myself for being white. I suspect it might be more to do with a default assumption that randomly selected white people are the most likely to be unconsciously racist and superior and generally oblivious. Though I've had interesting conversations with both Black and Asian people who have described their own racism, so consciously I'm not so naive as to think that doesn't happen either.)

Also, a crucial practical advantage of the place being inner-city is that it was cheap for its size. If I was living anywhere any posher within Nottingham, I could only afford a much smaller place. Then I wouldn't get rent money and I'd have to get a lot more paid work and do less writing, and I wouldn't have the other people to share with whom I like.

Besides, unless you're gonna move to a mansion in its own grounds, you can still get noisy neighbours anywhere. Even quiet retired people who never go out partying can have insomnia and want the telly on loud. And even if you check out beforehand who's next door, that can change.

The most elegant solution would be to get rich enough to buy the houses on either side! Then I could rent them only to people who shared my standards of acceptable behaviour, i.e. "sleep takes precedence over entertainment". (Which is a house rule here.) But that's a long-term solution if it is a solution at all. And it does rather rely on me getting some decent sleep from time to time, otherwise I seem unlikely to have much spare energy for getting rich.

Anyway, summer holidays soon... apparently the new person's older sibling is living there temporarily over the summer, and ze is working, which may, fingers crossed, mean ze goes to bed at a time reasonably similar to us.



Sympathy and encouraging words gratefully received...

Comments

[jodawi.livejournal.com]

1.0 unit of sympathy provided.

zeir is usually "zir". gnp faq (http://aetherlumina.com/gnp/technical.html#declensiongnp)

[36.livejournal.com]

http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=memevector&itemid=1089

[jodawi.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah. Sometimes i wonder what it would be like if i had a memory.

[36.livejournal.com]

We've notorious for being nocturnal or semi-nocturnal and quoth_rachel's sleep patterns seem to drift slowly around the 24 hours of the day but it only took our other housemate asking us not to make /any/ noise within certain hours to have us tiptoing around the house, talking only on IRC and relying a lot on headphones.

Perhaps it helps to understand that the current 'funny' stereotype of a student is someone who gets pissed out of their head all the time until they're too studid to pay due attention to theirself, let alone others. My housemates in the first year were really really nice people who I was lucky to get in every other respect, but three or four times a week they'd go clubbing until 2am and then wander home extremely drunk, usually stealing signs or cones or traffic islands on the way (which I generally nagged them to take back when they were sober -- I mean taking the sign down for a busstop is just nasty) and then they'd sit in the kitchen (from which I was two doors away) continuing to get drunk until they either fell asleep on the floor or actually staggered to bed. In the one to three hours between getting home and falling asleep it sounded to the rest of us that they were having a noise making competition with banging, chair scraping and singing. If we'd recently told them to try not to wake us up, this would be punctuated by regular loud theatrical 'shhhh!' noises followed by giggles and if they were really drunk something extra loud like "ARE YOU SLEEP?".

I'm not saying that's what's happening with the people you have making noise at the moment but it's definately what makes someone smirk when they talk about students being rowdy.

I wouldn't say that it's typical but I would say that it's more acceptable and that it's only student houses I've been where I've seen the whole group of housemates routinely mix up spirits and cocktails and hand them around the way you'd see other households make tea. It's usually entire households of sharing students who've bonded as a friendship group at the start and all supported each other's preconceptions about alcohol and being a student. I'd say the 'typical' student is just as likely to be fanatically into one or two different student organised societies and activities. I'd like to think more likely.

But yes, the 'students get drunk for fun' thing is definately what the stereotype is. No matter what the student society I join they organise pub crawls where everyone gets too drunk to stand and does really stupid things (with pictures) by the end, oh apart from Anime Soc and the Adventure Gaming Society. I always thought that the drunk==fun thing was unimaginative and ultimately selfish (or self destructive).

You definately have my sympathies. And I'd agree that anyone (especially someone sober) who sniggers when you ask them if they could be a little less distruptive is one of the selfish-generation. Student apathy is at an all time high. If I'm blaming Thatcherism for road rage, I might as well decide it's played a part in this. Only caring for your own wants and needs to the detriment of others aint cool kids (but when corporations are spirit of the age and all youth culture and rebellion is hyjacked in order to run a profit, what do you expect?)! I'd imagine the average eleven year old would be more considerate of others than some of the students who buy into their own stereotype.

[barakta]

Hi,

Your neighbours sound pretty antisocial.... I'm not sure what the solution would be, its very difficult to quantify noise since it is perceptive.... I think they probably don't realise that they are being so noisy, and if there is alcohol involved then I suspect that is a large factor.... People don't realise how loud and antisocial they are being when pissed out of their brains.

I don't know what you can do except the official complaining route... You might be able to contact the owners of the house next year, the ones who's daughter will be living in the house. Maybe explain that you've had HUGE problems in the past with students, and have had to take them to environmental health... Many landlords will consider putting a clause in the contract to say excessive noise and upsettng neighbours is an evictable offense....

Even then if they don't want to know then maybe it is wise to do the environmental health thing before you go completely batty with the noise.... The landlords will hear about it if a formal complaint is made and often they can warn the students (altho that may not work, we have received an environmental health warning cos of one of my housemates bedrooms being the most disgusting skank hole I have ever had the misfortune to see - despite 2 written warnings he hasn't really cleared it... We've told him if we lose deposit we'll make him pay it.... He's not a bad person, just inherently lazy and childish in a 'if im not told how long I have, what exactly to do, how and when to do it - i won't do anything'.)

Many of these environmental things do indeed escalate where each side makes noise to piss off the other... I suspect avoiding temptation to be noisy at 7am may help, but my personal approach would be to do it anyways cos I'm like that ;-)

How about when the new people move in send them a letter introducing yourself, and welcoming them to the area, and within the context of this explain that noise transmission between the houses happens very easily, and saysing although you don't mind occasional parties and such the like you would be distressed by regular disruption to your sleep. You could ask that if they know they are to have a party that a note through your door would be appreciated, and that you'd be happy not to disturb them when they has occasional parties.?

Anyways i'm not saying anything revelational so I'm gonna sign off and find some munchies in the skank pit I live in ;/

Hugs and best of luck with these student types
Natalya

[softfruit.livejournal.com]

Meep *hug*

I've got a moderately noisy one upstairs (it tends to be every couple of weekends but starts at something like 6am on Sunday, just when you want to be able to enjoy a lie-in) and have had some really ghastly noise-monsters living in the adjacent flats here down the years.

Yep, it does seem to be a generational thing, the tenants of my age and above are much more aware both of their noisiness and of other simple social things like mucking in over keeping the share areas clean and the building secure. The Thatcherism legacy explanation works only too well, from my experience of the spoilt brats in question.

One of the loudest people in the building, til he died at the start of the year, was the deaf old bloke in the downstairs flat who had the telly up loud enough to hear. But at least with people like that you don't feel it's done out of selfishness or malice.

[wandra.livejournal.com]

You have my sympathy. Noise can be incredibly insanity-making & if you're losing sleep as well that can be unbearable. Hope you can get it sorted soon.