polyamory/nonmonogamy identity questions
Sep. 26th, 2002 11:45 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
memevectorThis training that K and I are doing in October is proving a catalyst for all kinds of interesting thoughts and discussions.
Here's one identity-political thing that arose:
I was already "doing" polyamory before I had a word for it, but since I came across the word polyamory (on the net, in 1994 I think), I have used it in describing my life.
I've also used the word non-monogamy, but to mean something different - taking it literally and using it to describe any situation where someone has more than one sexual partner.
Another relevant expression (which I know but rarely use) is "responsible non-monogamy". By this I mean more or less the same as polyamory, but not exactly the same - to me, polyamory definitely includes intimate love-relationships which don't necessarily include sex, whereas non-monogamy seems to me always to imply some kind of sexual connection.
On the other hand, K identifies as "nonmonogamous", by which ze means "responsibly nonmonogamous", and explicitly doesn't identify as polyamorous.
I asked K why ze doesn't identify as polyamorous. The main reasons were:
a) being comprehensible to "the person in the street" and not having some word that most people won't understand (though ze conceded that the ideas that may pop into the head of the "person in the street" when you say "nonmonogamy" may well bear very little relation to what our lives are actually like).
b) that polyamory seems to em to refer to a particular community of which ze doesn't consider emself part.
K also brought up another reason, given to em by someone else who identifies as nonmonogamous and not as poly. This was that polyamory seemed to put emphasis on commitment and love rather than sex, and that it seemed therefore to be devaluing connections that were purely sexual.
This had never occurred to me before, but I can get the objection. But then I was thinking: I'm not sure, but I suspect that different people's definitions/ideas of "what polyamory is" might or might not include casual sex outside the context of ongoing relationships. Like, I don't feel sure that there is consensus on that.
I thought the "is polyamory a community" question was kind of interesting as well. "The polyamory community" is not an expression I seem to remember hearing, but I can get that alt.poly and alt.polycon and the UK poly e-list could be construed as manifestations of one. But when I adopted the word, I felt much more like "Here is a good word to describe something about my principles and my emotional life" than "I am joining a community".
One of my handouts from the bi-education pack is to point out the difference between bisexuality and nonmonogamy. Strictly speaking, it doesn't matter if K doesn't agree with how I put it, which ze currently doesn't; there are lots of places where we don't necessarily agree politically and we shall tell the participants so, and I am identified as the author of the bi-ed pack. But really I would like to rewrite that page, or write something different, before the training day, so that we can both align on what goes out in the handouts and so that it acknowledges people's different uses of the language. So I've got to do some thinking :-)
So here are some questions I have, for anyone who feels moved to answer:
1. Do you describe yourself as polyamorous? nonmonogamous? "responsibly nonmonogamous"?
2. Which if any of those three terms are equivalent for you, or what are the differences?
3. If you have political objections to claiming the term polyamory, what are they?
4. If someone has one primary partner, plus casual sex without ongoing relationships with others, would you count that as polyamory?
5. Do you consider yourself part of a "polyamory community"? If yes, in what sense?
Please point other people at this post as well, if you think they're gonna have interesting answers. Thanks people!
Here's one identity-political thing that arose:
I was already "doing" polyamory before I had a word for it, but since I came across the word polyamory (on the net, in 1994 I think), I have used it in describing my life.
I've also used the word non-monogamy, but to mean something different - taking it literally and using it to describe any situation where someone has more than one sexual partner.
Another relevant expression (which I know but rarely use) is "responsible non-monogamy". By this I mean more or less the same as polyamory, but not exactly the same - to me, polyamory definitely includes intimate love-relationships which don't necessarily include sex, whereas non-monogamy seems to me always to imply some kind of sexual connection.
On the other hand, K identifies as "nonmonogamous", by which ze means "responsibly nonmonogamous", and explicitly doesn't identify as polyamorous.
I asked K why ze doesn't identify as polyamorous. The main reasons were:
a) being comprehensible to "the person in the street" and not having some word that most people won't understand (though ze conceded that the ideas that may pop into the head of the "person in the street" when you say "nonmonogamy" may well bear very little relation to what our lives are actually like).
b) that polyamory seems to em to refer to a particular community of which ze doesn't consider emself part.
K also brought up another reason, given to em by someone else who identifies as nonmonogamous and not as poly. This was that polyamory seemed to put emphasis on commitment and love rather than sex, and that it seemed therefore to be devaluing connections that were purely sexual.
This had never occurred to me before, but I can get the objection. But then I was thinking: I'm not sure, but I suspect that different people's definitions/ideas of "what polyamory is" might or might not include casual sex outside the context of ongoing relationships. Like, I don't feel sure that there is consensus on that.
I thought the "is polyamory a community" question was kind of interesting as well. "The polyamory community" is not an expression I seem to remember hearing, but I can get that alt.poly and alt.polycon and the UK poly e-list could be construed as manifestations of one. But when I adopted the word, I felt much more like "Here is a good word to describe something about my principles and my emotional life" than "I am joining a community".
One of my handouts from the bi-education pack is to point out the difference between bisexuality and nonmonogamy. Strictly speaking, it doesn't matter if K doesn't agree with how I put it, which ze currently doesn't; there are lots of places where we don't necessarily agree politically and we shall tell the participants so, and I am identified as the author of the bi-ed pack. But really I would like to rewrite that page, or write something different, before the training day, so that we can both align on what goes out in the handouts and so that it acknowledges people's different uses of the language. So I've got to do some thinking :-)
So here are some questions I have, for anyone who feels moved to answer:
1. Do you describe yourself as polyamorous? nonmonogamous? "responsibly nonmonogamous"?
2. Which if any of those three terms are equivalent for you, or what are the differences?
3. If you have political objections to claiming the term polyamory, what are they?
4. If someone has one primary partner, plus casual sex without ongoing relationships with others, would you count that as polyamory?
5. Do you consider yourself part of a "polyamory community"? If yes, in what sense?
Please point other people at this post as well, if you think they're gonna have interesting answers. Thanks people!
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(no subject)
Date: 2002-09-26 04:07 am (UTC)The term 'polyamorous' seems appropriate to me because it's a portmanteau word; it's a word specially constructed to fit a non-traditional lifestyle. I also like the fact that it can mean several things; not only 'having numerous loves/lovers' but also 'experiencing many forms of love'.
I don't know what other word I'd use. 'Free love' has dodgy hippyish connotations, while 'pansexual' is a bit too open to interpretation of the 'anyone, anytime, anywhere' variety.
When I talk about my relationships, either to partners or outsiders, words like 'open', 'community', 'sharing' and 'generous' tend to come up. I'd like there to be a word that expresses my ability to offer love unconditionally, and to take pleasure where I find it.
(no subject)
Date: 2002-09-26 05:10 am (UTC)I call myself nonmonogamous by preference, which to me just means not monogamous, because I think it's the broadest available term. I have bowed to peer pressure (*grin*) and will now call myself poly in circles where that's the most usual term. I detest 'responsible nonmonogamy' because it implies a looking down on everyone else who is presumably *irresponsible*. To some that only includes cheating, but to others it covers casual sex, or sex which is less safe than their personal standard of safer sex, so I won't use it.
2. Which if any of those three terms are equivalent for you, or what are the differences?
I think polyamory is a subset of nonmonogamy, which doesn't include classic swinging, for instance. People I know use them fairly interchangeably, though.
3. If you have political objections to claiming the term polyamory, what are they?
I disliked the prevailing (mainly American) attitude on alt.poly when I used to read it, and I also objected to similar things in Loving More Magazine and from Deberoh Anapol etc. They all seemed to want to distance themselves as far as possible from swingers and say that poly people wouldn't ever, for instance, suck anonymous cock in a club or go cruising or whatever. I want to be free to have casual sex *or* relationships and anything in between, which seems to confuse some people.
4. If someone has one primary partner, plus casual sex without ongoing relationships with others, would you count that as polyamory?
*Shrug* If they call it poly, it's poly, but if they've got an explicit agreement with their primary partner that they're never to develop a relationship with any of the other people, I'd call it non-monogamy instead.
5. Do you consider yourself part of a "polyamory community"? If yes, in what sense?
Only in the sense that a lot of the people I know are poly, but then the same goes for the bi community, really...
(no subject)
Date: 2002-09-26 05:38 am (UTC)I would tend to use the word poly or polyamorous.
2. Which if any of those three terms are equivalent for you, or what are the differences?
Nonmonogamous I don't like as it is a definition based on what one is not and I prefer to embrace a more positive word.
3. If you have political objections to claiming the term polyamory, what are they? Not relevant
4. If someone has one primary partner, plus casual sex without ongoing relationships with others, would you count that as polyamory?
No, though if someone wanted to claim the identity I guess I wouldn't argue with them about it.
5. Do you consider yourself part of a "polyamory community"? If yes, in what sense?
Yes - I consider myself part of the ukpoly community and I have been part of the altpoly community - insomuchas community is the word used to describe the people who belong to or frequent such groupings. I'm not sure I like the word community very much. I don't see the "community" as an entity - but a place, perhaps, an opportunity to get together with likeminded people? A way of making contacts ... and as I'm not always (or even often) a very active member of communities with which I associate it's questionable how many of the other members would see me as a member of the community .... if you see what I mean.
Hope that helps ...
(no subject)
Date: 2002-09-26 07:11 am (UTC)Either of the first two. I'm with purplerabbits about "responsible nonmonogamy" - yuck. It's just for the realm of more-responsible-than-thou folk.
2. Which if any of those three terms are equivalent for you, or what are the differences?
One difference which seems to come up is to take polyamory as being multiple relationships, but nomonogamy as being sex with multiple partners without very (or any) committed relationships there. Maybe it's useful to have such a distinction; I'm not sure. It seems important to some people, anyway.
3. If you have political objections to claiming the term polyamory, what are they?
I don't, but I have met people who objected to me claiming it because I'm only in one relationship. I like to use it as a way of capturing the idea that I can love more than one person at a time. I know this to be true, and it's a useful idea because most people do not seem to feel this way (indeed, some people claim it's not possible to be the way I am).
4. If someone has one primary partner, plus casual sex without ongoing relationships with others, would you count that as polyamory?
I see polyamory as the description of an identity rather than a practice. It follows that you can identify as poly even at times when you're not practising it. That said, your question sounds like you're looking for a label for the behaviour. I don't think I'd call that polyamory.
5. Do you consider yourself part of a "polyamory community"?
No.
(no subject)
Date: 2002-09-26 04:09 pm (UTC)Polyamorous.
2. Which if any of those three terms are equivalent for you, or what are the differences?
I see poly as more specific than non-monogamy. Non-monogamy for me means any type of behaviour that isn't traditional monogamy; poly means multiple, ethical relationships (of whatever type). I'm not sure how I feel about 'responsible non-monogamy'.
3. If you have political objections to claiming the term polyamory, what are they?
I don't.
4. If someone has one primary partner, plus casual sex without ongoing relationships with others, would you count that as polyamory?
If the partner knew about the casual sex and was happy with it, and if ongoing relationships were also an option, yes. If the agreement was that only casual sex was permitted, and the casual sex in question was with random pickups rather than friends, then I think I'd call it non-monogamy.
5. Do you consider yourself part of a "polyamory community"? If yes, in what sense?
Yes. Most of my friends are poly, in a variety of ways.
I think being actively poly is something you kind of need a community for, because it's much easier to be poly if the people you're seeing are also poly, or at least acquainted with the concept. I wouldn't want to have to explain it afresh to every new partner and then wait to see if they could deal with it. This way, I have a limited pool of potential partners, but it's a large pool and it's full of fish who know what they're doing. Er, or something.
(no subject)
Date: 2002-09-27 12:05 pm (UTC)b.t.w. I too would still describe myself as polyamorous when in one (or indeed no) relationship.
More views still very welcome.
(no subject)
Date: 2002-10-01 12:27 pm (UTC)Polyamorous, usually shortened to poly.
2. Which if any of those three terms are equivalent for you, or what are the differences?
polyamory is a subset of "responsible nonmonogamy" is a subset of nonmonogamy.
Polyamory for me implies an emphasis on loving relationships, but it doesn't exclude casual sex.
4. If someone has one primary partner, plus casual sex without ongoing relationships with others, would you count that as polyamory?
If they want to identify that way, that's up to them.
That situation as described, I would probably call an "open relationship" (could also be described as non-monogamy - you don't mention if they have an agreement - people seem to be assuming that they do).
5. Do you consider yourself part of a "polyamory community"? If yes, in what sense?
I consider myself to be part of alt.poly which is a (poly (though not exclusively)) community, and alt.polycon is a manifestation of it.
I may also be part of a londonpolybis community.
I don't consider myself part of a "the poly community", or even much believe in its existence.
(no subject)
Date: 2002-10-02 01:33 am (UTC)Man, if it weren't a "deviant lifestyle", would you be so eager to define it beyond the basic knee-jerk, logogrammatic axioms of the society you live in?
The more effort you put into ensuring that every facet of life, yours or otherwise, has labels dangling off it like new clothes, the more you fuck it up. You can talk your life to death. Blather blather blather.
Good questions.
Date: 2002-11-20 04:59 am (UTC)I describe myself as polyamorous and non-monogamous.
2. Which if any of those three terms are equivalent for you, or what are the differences?
I say I'm poly because I'm happy to be involved in multiple relationships, either by having them myself or by my partners having them. I say I'm non-monogamous because I see nothing wrong with sex outside of a relationship framework. Non-mog and responsibly non-mog mean the same to me. Irresponsible non-mog is cheating, not non-mog.
3. If you have political objections to claiming the term polyamory, what are they?
I have none, and I'd be keen to try to wrestle the word from the grip of anyone claiming to be 'politically poly'.
4. If someone has one primary partner, plus casual sex without ongoing relationships with others, would you count that as polyamory?
Perhaps. It would depend on their definition. I do that. I call it non-monogamy.
5. Do you consider yourself part of a "polyamory community"? If yes, in what sense?
'A' poly community, yes - the web made up of the polyamorous relationships of which mine are part. A wider poly community? Not sure it exists...